Obligatory moan-about-credit thread

Author	Message
Biggles Send message Joined: Aug 25 10 Posts: 1 Credit: 3,814 RAC: 0	Message 246 - Posted 1 Mar 2011 15:18:14 UTC
Well someone had to do it. I had a flick through the stats and noticed a bunch of computers that are truly awe inspiringly fast. Like Core 2 Quads that must be running at 6+ GHz to achieve the kind of benchmarks they're getting. Except, they are running 5.5.0 clients. You know, the unofficial one that was used to vastly, vastly overclaim credit. It was outright banned on some projects. Problem is, with a quorum of just one, people will get credit based on what they claim. And that's really unfair. For some comparison purposes, this host is overclocked and running at 3GHz. This host might well be overclocked, but it's benchmarks are 241% higher, which by my reckoning (bearing in mind the BOINC CPU benchmark is about single threaded performance) means it must be running at 7.23 GHz. Er, no, don't think so. So either ban it, and half the credit for anyone using it, or just give us the ok to claim however much credit we want. Can we have a statement from an admin please?
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Fabio Campos Volunteer moderator Project administrator Project developer Project tester Volunteer developer Volunteer tester Project scientist Send message Joined: Feb 3 10 Posts: 58 Credit: 10,767 RAC: 11	Message 251 - Posted 14 Mar 2011 13:04:04 UTC - in response to Message 246.
Hi Biggles, we are working on a new credit system, which grants fixed credits per wu ... thx for crunching and best regards, Fabio
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Maxwell [MM] Send message Joined: Jul 24 10 Posts: 13 Credit: 12,852,727 RAC: 0	Message 252 - Posted 15 Mar 2011 2:21:02 UTC - in response to Message 251.
Hi Biggles, we are working on a new credit system, which grants fixed credits per wu ... thx for crunching and best regards, Fabio Will this be implemented on the PS3 app as well?
ID: 252 \| Rating: 0 \| rate: / Reply Quote

Fabio Campos Volunteer moderator Project administrator Project developer Project tester Volunteer developer Volunteer tester Project scientist Send message Joined: Feb 3 10 Posts: 58 Credit: 10,767 RAC: 11	Message 253 - Posted 15 Mar 2011 8:43:58 UTC - in response to Message 252.
Hi Maxwell, this isn't a app-based change ... After that every host will get 200 credits per WU. Best regards, Fabio
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Sorceress Send message Joined: Jul 25 10 Posts: 23 Credit: 86,327 RAC: 707	Message 254 - Posted 16 Mar 2011 13:35:35 UTC
This will be good. I was going to tell you I was detaching because the credits were just too low for me to continue supporting this project. I am dropping some other projects as well for the same reason. While I am not a credit hound, I do like getting a good return on for my time. The one thing that has kept me here is the smoothness of this project. I rarely have problems getting work or reporting work. That's a big plus in my book.
ID: 254 \| Rating: 0 \| rate: / Reply Quote

rebirther Send message Joined: Jul 17 10 Posts: 7 Credit: 561,982 RAC: 0	Message 255 - Posted 16 Mar 2011 18:03:03 UTC - in response to Message 253.
Hi Maxwell, this isn't a app-based change ... After that every host will get 200 credits per WU. Best regards, Fabio That could be a problem with the length of a WU. Try to calculate around 40cr/h with a standard cpu, so you can define a value in shorter or longer runs in WU template but this isnt a good solution I think.
ID: 255 \| Rating: 0 \| rate: / Reply Quote

Fabio Campos Volunteer moderator Project administrator Project developer Project tester Volunteer developer Volunteer tester Project scientist Send message Joined: Feb 3 10 Posts: 58 Credit: 10,767 RAC: 11	Message 256 - Posted 17 Mar 2011 11:34:41 UTC - in response to Message 255.
Hi rebirther, what is "a standard cpu"? ;-) I talked to a lot of BOINC-users and they said, that 50 credits/hour would be ok ... a primaboinca WU needs at a single core Intel 2,0 GHz < 4 hours of computation, so that the credits granted "c" should be: 150 > c < 200 ... the main reasons for granting fixed credits are: - "real" PS3/CBE apps (like primaboinca) mostly crunch using the SPEs - hacking/manipulation Best regards, Fabio
ID: 256 \| Rating: 0 \| rate: / Reply Quote

rebirther Send message Joined: Jul 17 10 Posts: 7 Credit: 561,982 RAC: 0	Message 257 - Posted 17 Mar 2011 15:32:55 UTC - in response to Message 256.
Hi rebirther, what is "a standard cpu"? ;-) I talked to a lot of BOINC-users and they said, that 50 credits/hour would be ok ... a primaboinca WU needs at a single core Intel 2,0 GHz < 4 hours of computation, so that the credits granted "c" should be: 150 > c < 200 ... the main reasons for granting fixed credits are: - "real" PS3/CBE apps (like primaboinca) mostly crunch using the SPEs - hacking/manipulation Best regards, Fabio A standard cpu I mean is what you have it. I really like fixed credits so find the best solution to set it up ;)
ID: 257 \| Rating: 0 \| rate: / Reply Quote

Sorceress Send message Joined: Jul 25 10 Posts: 23 Credit: 86,327 RAC: 707	Message 258 - Posted 17 Mar 2011 23:26:12 UTC
@Fabio Your plan sounds fine. Run with it. Don't get sidetracked by "special interests".
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Maxwell [MM] Send message Joined: Jul 24 10 Posts: 13 Credit: 12,852,727 RAC: 0	Message 259 - Posted 22 Mar 2011 3:48:48 UTC - in response to Message 258.
@Fabio Your plan sounds fine. Run with it. Don't get sidetracked by "special interests". I totally agree. This is great news. Thanks!
ID: 259 \| Rating: 0 \| rate: / Reply Quote

frankhagen Send message Joined: Jul 23 10 Posts: 6 Credit: 4,363,898 RAC: 9,667	Message 260 - Posted 22 Mar 2011 16:39:17 UTC - in response to Message 259. Last modified: 22 Mar 2011 16:41:03 UTC
it's still there: http://www.primaboinca.com/results.php?hostid=4349 :( an Intel(R) Core(TM) Duo CPU U2500 @ 1.20GHz with that "benchmarks": Measured floating point speed 6239.52 million ops/sec Measured integer speed 24189.67 million ops/sec THIS is ridiculous... delete this users account.
ID: 260 \| Rating: 0 \| rate: / Reply Quote

rebirther Send message Joined: Jul 17 10 Posts: 7 Credit: 561,982 RAC: 0	Message 261 - Posted 22 Mar 2011 19:59:43 UTC - in response to Message 260.
it's still there: http://www.primaboinca.com/results.php?hostid=4349 :( an Intel(R) Core(TM) Duo CPU U2500 @ 1.20GHz with that "benchmarks": Measured floating point speed 6239.52 million ops/sec Measured integer speed 24189.67 million ops/sec THIS is ridiculous... delete this users account. There are some more hosts with running 5.5.0. The best solution at first is to allow only hosts greater than 6.x. Check also the first top 20 in stats, you will surprised to find some of them there. To delete an account could get negative effects on db. Better to set it back to zero. As long as fixed credits are not set yet try out the first point.
ID: 261 \| Rating: 0 \| rate: / Reply Quote

zombie67 [MM] Send message Joined: Jul 24 10 Posts: 18 Credit: 2,038,916 RAC: 8,871	Message 262 - Posted 23 Mar 2011 3:56:24 UTC
BOINC version can be spoofed almost as easily as benchmarks. Fixed credits will solve it all. ____________ Dublin, CA Team SETI.USA
ID: 262 \| Rating: 0 \| rate: / Reply Quote

Author

Message

Biggles
Send message
Joined: Aug 25 10
Posts: 1
Credit: 3,814
RAC: 0

Well someone had to do it.

I had a flick through the stats and noticed a bunch of computers that are truly awe inspiringly fast. Like Core 2 Quads that must be running at 6+ GHz to achieve the kind of benchmarks they're getting.

Except, they are running 5.5.0 clients. You know, the unofficial one that was used to vastly, vastly overclaim credit. It was outright banned on some projects. Problem is, with a quorum of just one, people will get credit based on what they claim.

And that's really unfair.

For some comparison purposes, this host is overclocked and running at 3GHz. This host might well be overclocked, but it's benchmarks are 241% higher, which by my reckoning (bearing in mind the BOINC CPU benchmark is about single threaded performance) means it must be running at 7.23 GHz. Er, no, don't think so.

So either ban it, and half the credit for anyone using it, or just give us the ok to claim however much credit we want.

Can we have a statement from an admin please?

ID: 246 | Rating: 0 | rate:

Fabio Campos
Volunteer moderator
Project administrator
Project developer
Project tester
Volunteer developer
Volunteer tester
Project scientist
Send message
Joined: Feb 3 10
Posts: 58
Credit: 10,767
RAC: 11

Hi Biggles,

we are working on a new credit system, which grants fixed credits per wu ...

thx for crunching and best regards,
Fabio

ID: 251 | Rating: 0 | rate:

Maxwell [MM]
Send message
Joined: Jul 24 10
Posts: 13
Credit: 12,852,727
RAC: 0

Hi Biggles,

we are working on a new credit system, which grants fixed credits per wu ...

thx for crunching and best regards,
Fabio

Will this be implemented on the PS3 app as well?

ID: 252 | Rating: 0 | rate:

Hi Maxwell,

this isn't a app-based change ...
After that every host will get 200 credits per WU.

Best regards,
Fabio

ID: 253 | Rating: 0 | rate:

Sorceress

Send message
Joined: Jul 25 10
Posts: 23
Credit: 86,327
RAC: 707

This will be good. I was going to tell you I was detaching because the credits were just too low for me to continue supporting this project. I am dropping some other projects as well for the same reason. While I am not a credit hound, I do like getting a good return on for my time. The one thing that has kept me here is the smoothness of this project. I rarely have problems getting work or reporting work. That's a big plus in my book.

ID: 254 | Rating: 0 | rate:

rebirther

Send message
Joined: Jul 17 10
Posts: 7
Credit: 561,982
RAC: 0

Hi Maxwell,

this isn't a app-based change ...
After that every host will get 200 credits per WU.

Best regards,
Fabio

That could be a problem with the length of a WU. Try to calculate around 40cr/h with a standard cpu, so you can define a value in shorter or longer runs in WU template but this isnt a good solution I think.

ID: 255 | Rating: 0 | rate:

Hi rebirther,

what is "a standard cpu"? ;-)
I talked to a lot of BOINC-users and they said, that 50 credits/hour would be ok ...

a primaboinca WU needs at a single core Intel 2,0 GHz < 4 hours of computation, so that the credits granted "c" should be: 150 > c < 200 ...

the main reasons for granting fixed credits are:
- "real" PS3/CBE apps (like primaboinca) mostly crunch using the SPEs
- hacking/manipulation

Best regards,
Fabio

ID: 256 | Rating: 0 | rate:

rebirther

Send message
Joined: Jul 17 10
Posts: 7
Credit: 561,982
RAC: 0

Hi rebirther,

what is "a standard cpu"? ;-)
I talked to a lot of BOINC-users and they said, that 50 credits/hour would be ok ...

a primaboinca WU needs at a single core Intel 2,0 GHz < 4 hours of computation, so that the credits granted "c" should be: 150 > c < 200 ...

the main reasons for granting fixed credits are:
- "real" PS3/CBE apps (like primaboinca) mostly crunch using the SPEs
- hacking/manipulation

Best regards,
Fabio

A standard cpu I mean is what you have it. I really like fixed credits so find the best solution to set it up ;)

ID: 257 | Rating: 0 | rate:

Sorceress

Send message
Joined: Jul 25 10
Posts: 23
Credit: 86,327
RAC: 707

@Fabio

Your plan sounds fine. Run with it. Don't get sidetracked by "special interests".

ID: 258 | Rating: 0 | rate:

Maxwell [MM]
Send message
Joined: Jul 24 10
Posts: 13
Credit: 12,852,727
RAC: 0

@Fabio

Your plan sounds fine. Run with it. Don't get sidetracked by "special interests".

I totally agree. This is great news. Thanks!

ID: 259 | Rating: 0 | rate:

frankhagen
Send message
Joined: Jul 23 10
Posts: 6
Credit: 4,363,898
RAC: 9,667

it's still there: http://www.primaboinca.com/results.php?hostid=4349 :(

an Intel(R) Core(TM) Duo CPU U2500 @ 1.20GHz

with that "benchmarks":

Measured floating point speed 6239.52 million ops/sec
Measured integer speed 24189.67 million ops/sec

THIS is ridiculous...

delete this users account.

ID: 260 | Rating: 0 | rate:

rebirther

Send message
Joined: Jul 17 10
Posts: 7
Credit: 561,982
RAC: 0

it's still there: http://www.primaboinca.com/results.php?hostid=4349 :(

an Intel(R) Core(TM) Duo CPU U2500 @ 1.20GHz

with that "benchmarks":

Measured floating point speed 6239.52 million ops/sec
Measured integer speed 24189.67 million ops/sec

THIS is ridiculous...

delete this users account.

There are some more hosts with running 5.5.0. The best solution at first is to allow only hosts greater than 6.x. Check also the first top 20 in stats, you will surprised to find some of them there. To delete an account could get negative effects on db. Better to set it back to zero. As long as fixed credits are not set yet try out the first point.

ID: 261 | Rating: 0 | rate:

zombie67 [MM]

Send message
Joined: Jul 24 10
Posts: 18
Credit: 2,038,916
RAC: 8,871

BOINC version can be spoofed almost as easily as benchmarks.

Fixed credits will solve it all.
____________
Dublin, CA
Team SETI.USA

ID: 262 | Rating: 0 | rate: