11) Message boards : Number crunching : Poor Credits (Message 152)
Posted 3223 days ago by Profile Sorceress
The question then becomes: Should E2 and E3 have the same salary or not?

My answer would be No, as different employers and companies may have totally different market dynamics or size, different suppliers, processes or clientele.

Same No answer goes to cross-project credit parity. It's not feasible in any fair or sustainable way and no brain power or programming effort should be wasted in achieving such parity.


I agree.

Credits have no real value so all arguments about capitalism/socialism are not applicable to the BOINC world. Projects can inflate credits all the way to infinity if they like without consequence. If a real world company would inflate salaries the same way, they would attract quality employees, but soon find their cost base above their revenue and flop. Credits are just a way to measure computing contribution and people use them to compare/compete with their BOINC peers. That's where fairness needs to be introduced.


Fairness?? Why should there be fairness? Your statement is patently hog wash. Capitolism and socialism are 'philosophical ideologies'. And yes, they can quite easily be applied to the BOINC world. Fairness to you means forcing everyone to live by your standards. There is no 'fainess' in that.

On the other hand, how a real world company does it's business is it's mode of operations. A real world company can also be directly influenced by the 'philosophical ideologies' of the country it operates in. But not in the reverse.

BOINC statistics sites large and small have a thing called BOINC Combined (or similar). Applicable to individuals and teams and countries, it's the first thing that comes in their pages and signatures etc. That's were my beef is and probably plenty of others accused of being credit cops.

You crunch hard and make your way into your country's or team's top-10 or top-100 and often find that you cannot climb any further despite having a lot more computing power than those above you. That's only because they are crunching for projects that give silly amounts of credit. To compete you have to join them and free choice is lost there, not gained. Surely it's all only bragging rights and not everyone is interested in competition, but if you make a rank, then the ranking criteria need to be fair.

If the BOINC combined metric (based on just total credit) was removed, the credit parity grief will disappear as well. It could be replaced with a fairer formula (surely that's doable, something similar to boincstats's world cup). So when someone finds a project that gives him a gazillion credits/day for his GPU, who cares, let him get those credits. He'll soon realise that those aren't useful in any ranking outside that project and certainly he won't be ahead of those who dedicate significantly more resources and (with the current system) find themselves outranked.


Ttest, what you have just to shown all of us is what socialistic philosophies can do to someone's moral values and integrities. You are so corrupted by your desire to deny others what you yourself can not achieve, that you blame it on the unfairness of the 'system'. Hoping that if enough people believe as you do, that you will be elevated above your present station in life. I can not help believe that these ideals also permiates throughtout your own personal life.

These all all sign of the corruption of the human spirit for freedom and liberty to be all you can. You are not forced to do anything in distributed computing. It's all voluntary! Your whining about the unfairness of others having and making more credits than you do, is pure envy, greed and jealousy. You want to 'force' them to lower themselves to your level because you can't beat them. There is an old saying, '...if you cant beat them, join them'. A very 'common sense' philosophy of living.

Instead of blaming your petty shortcoming on how unfair life is, why dont you find a way to be a winner. Stop trying to level the playing field and 'earn' your wings by hard work and intellectual prowness. Then you can do all the bragging you want. You will have earned it by 'beating the system'. It's called freedom of choice.





12) Message boards : Number crunching : Poor Credits (Message 148)
Posted 3225 days ago by Profile Sorceress
Hi.

just for the record. I agree with John. The project goal should be decisive, if you join a project (or not), not the credits. The insane amount of credits generated by DNETC ATM is just laughable.

Michael



Well so is the Insane amount offered by Milkyway which started all the in-saneness. Also Collatz & Aqua for a CPU Project, so one might as well go where it's the insanest ... LOL


Lead the way Sir Paladin*. I'm right behind you. More credits, if you plesse!

13) Message boards : Number crunching : Poor Credits (Message 144)
Posted 3230 days ago by Profile Sorceress
Hi,

sorry but I have to finish my thesis until next week ... after that I promise to resolve this problem ...

Please don't stop crunching for primaboinca ... ;-)


Fabio,
Best wishes on your thesis!!

FWIW, I'll hang around for a while longer

Sorceress
14) Message boards : Number crunching : Poor Credits (Message 143)
Posted 3230 days ago by Profile Sorceress
So I guess my chances for a scientific discovery increase.

Michael


Dittos!
15) Message boards : Science : Task View (Message 139)
Posted 3233 days ago by Profile Sorceress
Fabio, please increase the history of the 'task view' list to cover the last 15 active/completed tasks, instead of the last 2-3. It helps having more tasks on view for comparison TIA.
16) Message boards : Number crunching : Poor Credits (Message 136)
Posted 3237 days ago by Profile Sorceress
I am fine with the amount of credit granted. I would just like the stats to be exported more often. The Free-DC stats usually only update once every couple of days...


Of course you are.


Well, I'm NOT!! so there.... :>

BTW for all of you who complained about the credits being too high, or just okay, I asked Fabio to make sure when he increased the credits, that he gives your credits to me and pay all of you in elephant food instead. After all, you are willing to *crunch* for PEANUTS, right?
17) Message boards : Number crunching : Poor Credits (Message 133)
Posted 3239 days ago by Profile Sorceress
Fabio,

Have you considered raising the credits on this project? They seem really low. I would recommend somewhere around 4x what you are currently issuing as that would put you more in line with Yoyo, Quantum Fire, PrimeGrid, and Collatz.

Many people slog through the horrible credits offered by the medical projects for other reasons, but since this is not a medical project I think you will find that you would get significantly more work done and much broader participation with better cobblestone payout.


It seems we got off on a tagent from the original request. The question of whether the credit level could be increased, is still unanswered. An increase of 3x-4x the level it is now would be on par with the other projects.

I am finding it increasingly difficult to support projects who refuse to compensate their user with a better reward system than they do. As I am on a fixed income, the cost to operate my computer is becoming harder as well. A good return on my work is my only compenstion in doing so. And I am sure many of the other crunchers feel the same way. It's to your benefit as well as ours to have a more generous credit base for this project.

Please let us know if this request can be achieved. I'm sure that SLicker(SETI.USA) would be glad to help with the 'how to..' in setting the credit levels. TIA
18) Message boards : Number crunching : Poor Credits (Message 132)
Posted 3240 days ago by Profile Sorceress
Bravo Kevint Bravo!
19) Message boards : Number crunching : Poor Credits (Message 127)
Posted 3242 days ago by Profile Sorceress

The comparison to Capitalism and Socialism only goes so far, or you can continue it further than you have.

Even in Capitalism there are constraints on how much workers get paid. The company has to bring in the money to pay the workers somehow. This is distinctly not the case in BOINC. Credit is granted, but the projects do not have to earn it in any way before it is granted.

Having projects assign whatever value they feel like is more akin to counterfitting than capitalism. It makes the ultimate value and utility 0.

Fine it is piecework. E2 gets paid the same per piece as E1 at all times. E2 just gets more of them done. Eventually the supply outstrips the demand and both of them get paid less per piece. E2 still earns more than E1, but not as much more as he might have expected. E2 still gets paid more in total than E1 did at the beginning.


DOH! What a hugh pile of bat guano! Your ignorance of simple, basic social economics is so appalling it's absurd. Futher debate with you will prove pointless since you lack the concepts necessary to rationally support your views or to comprehend ours. For that I pity you
20) Message boards : Number crunching : Poor Credits (Message 121)
Posted 3243 days ago by Profile Sorceress
It is obvious that John is a kredit kop and his 'herd' mentality is based in the ideals of 'socialism'. He believes that the STATE should own/run everything so that there is complete equality in the masses. He is opposed to 'capitalism' that gives power to the people (projects) to determine their own destiny. He believes everyone should earn the same rewards, regardless of your station in life. Whether you are a mechanical engineer or a pipefitter, its all the same (cross-project parity). Showing him the errors of his thinking seem to be pointless. His mind is set on forcing everyone to live by his standard of, "..what is good for the goose is good for the gander".

Cross-project parity (socialism) does not work. It stifles achievement, incentive, advancement and proliferation. Capitalism (projects right to choose) empowers people to do and be all they can be. To achieve whatever goals they desire, whether it be for money, fame, glory or knowledge.

It is the projects right to determine their worth and how they reward user for their participation. Cross-project parity removes that right to choose and forces them to follow the herd. I reject this socialist ideal and chose their right of self-determination. Time to lock 'n load.


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